The most absolutely brilliant summation, that must be read and debated in the hearts of every Jew who looks to Israel as our heart, and Zionism as our salvation in the antisemitic diaspora. And painful to listen to, while being totally captivating. It’s painful to this New Jersey diaspora Jew, who still dreams the Zionist dream of the pioneers of the Palmach, of the hero’s of ‘48 and ‘67. But I’m also a conservative Jew who was a militant secular Zionist as a teenager and now in middle age beginning to go to my conservative shul on Shabbat, study Tanya with the local Chabad Rabbi and occasionally even lay tefillin. The Zionist dream of the pioneers that I was raised on may have been a mirage, propaganda taught to us. The reality was the Altadena, whose painful fault line is so brilliantly told in Amit’s incredible, insightful, writing. I will listen and read everything this man says - on Call me Back, in his books, and his daily It’s Noon in Israel. Kol Ha Kavod Amit. Yasher Koach!!!
its actually the same tension diaspora jews are feeling right now.
its not easy to be a jew connected to Torah but that is our destiny as nation. Fighting it rather than trying to embrace it is not working out too well.
im not advocating for a theocratic government.
what one does in private is between that person and God
the public face reflects on Jews in Israel and around the world
before Yom Kippur I see the pride on social media when Ben Gurion Airport closes for 25 hours.
God promises us prosperity in all things if we sanctify the Sabbath every week
that in no way means forcing ppl to keep the Shabbat completely
the tension between the two will have to be resolved somehow- I guess that's the leap of faith
maybe it can be done by some other mechanism in addition to the elections
we jews are our own worst enemies and that's saying a lot
RE: “… three consecutive Knessets had crashed over Haredi enlistment, which was never really about manpower but about which value outranks the other: Torah study, in whose name yeshiva students are exempted, or equality, in whose name they would be conscripted.”
After almost three years of war, it seems to be about manpower now. Do you agree?
Still not about manpower. For months the heads of the yeshivot hesder and the religious Zionist pre-military academies have been chasing after the army to get a clear answer about the army's rumored plans to have women in frontline tank units. The same strategy made the artillery units off-limits to religious Zionist soldiers a decade ago, and those units are suffering a manpower shortage today. Nevertheless, the army has confirmed that it's going ahead with its plans. https://x.com/Yotamdeshe97/status/2067220214157029884?s=20
The inevitable conclusion of your argument is that the leader Israel will turn to, will be both extremely, unabashedly, unambiguously Jewish and religious, and drawing on that Jewish religious identity to provide powerful solutions to Israel's problems; yet equally dedicated to enable Israel to be home to the widest possible range of Jews, as a natural outgrowth of that selfsame Jewish religious identity. Moshe Feiglin to a T.
The dichotomy described in this beautiful essay exists also for in America: Am I a Jew who happens to live in America or an American who happens to practise Judaism. Which quality is essential and which contingent. I faced this question on a more micro level when my daughter was expecting our first grandchild: Would I be grandma (or some version thereof) or bubbie. I chose the latter and now my grandkids must explain to new people who come into their lives what a 'bubbie' is.
Not quite accurate: under no metric would Bnei Brak residents be considered (by themselves or anyone else) part of the “nationalist” camp, despite a shul on every corner, whereas most Yisrael Beiteinu voters are firmly both secular and hawkish.
Begin’s decision installing the charedi parties as the kingmakers is in hindsight one of the most damaging and corrosive in Israeli history.
How interesting - and perhaps unwittingly revealing - that Amit Segal never mentions Bennett, although the description of the best man for the top job would fit him perfectly:
“… the profile is almost defiantly unglamorous: unremarkable, low on charisma and boring—more radish than cilantro. Right-leaning on security, capitalist on the economy, traditional in observance, liberal in civic outlook and an enthusiast of broad governments where minority shareholders cannot seize control of the company. A center-right or right-center figure, in other words, sitting exactly where most Israelis already sit.”
A good description of Eisenkot as well. And the exact opposite of Netanyahu in every way.
If the Haredi parties were to vanish tomorrow, virtually all the Haredim would vote Ben Gvir. The only reason that doesn't happen is because there are widely publicized proclamations by leading Torah authorities to vote for the Haredi parties.
"Nationalist" and "hawkish" aren't quite the same. But what will happen to the Jews descended from Jewish communities in Russia is the same as what happened to Herut: one cannot support Jewish nationalism for very long without making peace with -- and eventually embracing -- the historic understanding of Jewish peoplehood and identity as defined by Judaism and Mount Sinai.
The majority of nonreligious Israeli Jews are nevertheless strong cultural Jews, with a better understanding of the concept of Am Yisrael than the Charedi fundamentalists whose primary concern is the evasion of work/service while collecting vast sums from the taxpaying public. This is not slander but basic economic facts which are freely available.
Unlike these antizionist charedim who prefer to call our holy soldiers “Nazis”, even chardal Ben Gvir supporters contribute.
I realize that it's much easier to get worked up over "Charedim don't work" than to recognize that 80% of women and 50% of men from the Charedi sector working and paying income tax. Or that 20-30% of the state's income comes from 50-60% tax on new apartments, something to which the average Charedi household contributes more than the average Israeli household.
Nevertheless, do try not to fall for cheap political propaganda.
The first Jewish fighting force in the land of Israel since Bar Kochba was Charedi. You have absolutely no idea what the "primary concern" of Charedim is; just like the "Free Palestine" idiots on college campuses who are convinced that Israel's primary concern is "genocide, ethnic cleansing and apartheid."
Consider: how was it that nobody in the army was able to push back significantly on the "konceptzia", and thus we would have avoided Oct. 7? Because the army is a hierarchal institution for behavioral modification, with a primary goal of producing generic Israelis to whom Judaism has little meaning. Worse, it has been ideologically captured by actors pursuing a social justice agenda, in which not only is winning taboo, but there must be no difference between men and women. All this has the predictable result of 20% (at least; the numbers may well be significantly higher) of religious recruits becoming secular during their time in the army.
That is the primary concern of the Charedim; and for you to pooh-pooh that concern as "evasion of work/service while collecting vast sums from the taxpaying public" means all that "cultural Jewishness" and "concept of Am Yisrael" doesn't care about Judaism, unlike the historical Jewish understanding of Jewish identity and peoplehood.
The most absolutely brilliant summation, that must be read and debated in the hearts of every Jew who looks to Israel as our heart, and Zionism as our salvation in the antisemitic diaspora. And painful to listen to, while being totally captivating. It’s painful to this New Jersey diaspora Jew, who still dreams the Zionist dream of the pioneers of the Palmach, of the hero’s of ‘48 and ‘67. But I’m also a conservative Jew who was a militant secular Zionist as a teenager and now in middle age beginning to go to my conservative shul on Shabbat, study Tanya with the local Chabad Rabbi and occasionally even lay tefillin. The Zionist dream of the pioneers that I was raised on may have been a mirage, propaganda taught to us. The reality was the Altadena, whose painful fault line is so brilliantly told in Amit’s incredible, insightful, writing. I will listen and read everything this man says - on Call me Back, in his books, and his daily It’s Noon in Israel. Kol Ha Kavod Amit. Yasher Koach!!!
Here Here! Well said
thank you for explaining this so well.
its actually the same tension diaspora jews are feeling right now.
its not easy to be a jew connected to Torah but that is our destiny as nation. Fighting it rather than trying to embrace it is not working out too well.
im not advocating for a theocratic government.
what one does in private is between that person and God
the public face reflects on Jews in Israel and around the world
before Yom Kippur I see the pride on social media when Ben Gurion Airport closes for 25 hours.
God promises us prosperity in all things if we sanctify the Sabbath every week
that in no way means forcing ppl to keep the Shabbat completely
the tension between the two will have to be resolved somehow- I guess that's the leap of faith
maybe it can be done by some other mechanism in addition to the elections
we jews are our own worst enemies and that's saying a lot
RE: “… three consecutive Knessets had crashed over Haredi enlistment, which was never really about manpower but about which value outranks the other: Torah study, in whose name yeshiva students are exempted, or equality, in whose name they would be conscripted.”
After almost three years of war, it seems to be about manpower now. Do you agree?
Still not about manpower. For months the heads of the yeshivot hesder and the religious Zionist pre-military academies have been chasing after the army to get a clear answer about the army's rumored plans to have women in frontline tank units. The same strategy made the artillery units off-limits to religious Zionist soldiers a decade ago, and those units are suffering a manpower shortage today. Nevertheless, the army has confirmed that it's going ahead with its plans. https://x.com/Yotamdeshe97/status/2067220214157029884?s=20
The inevitable conclusion of your argument is that the leader Israel will turn to, will be both extremely, unabashedly, unambiguously Jewish and religious, and drawing on that Jewish religious identity to provide powerful solutions to Israel's problems; yet equally dedicated to enable Israel to be home to the widest possible range of Jews, as a natural outgrowth of that selfsame Jewish religious identity. Moshe Feiglin to a T.
The dichotomy described in this beautiful essay exists also for in America: Am I a Jew who happens to live in America or an American who happens to practise Judaism. Which quality is essential and which contingent. I faced this question on a more micro level when my daughter was expecting our first grandchild: Would I be grandma (or some version thereof) or bubbie. I chose the latter and now my grandkids must explain to new people who come into their lives what a 'bubbie' is.
Not quite accurate: under no metric would Bnei Brak residents be considered (by themselves or anyone else) part of the “nationalist” camp, despite a shul on every corner, whereas most Yisrael Beiteinu voters are firmly both secular and hawkish.
Begin’s decision installing the charedi parties as the kingmakers is in hindsight one of the most damaging and corrosive in Israeli history.
How interesting - and perhaps unwittingly revealing - that Amit Segal never mentions Bennett, although the description of the best man for the top job would fit him perfectly:
“… the profile is almost defiantly unglamorous: unremarkable, low on charisma and boring—more radish than cilantro. Right-leaning on security, capitalist on the economy, traditional in observance, liberal in civic outlook and an enthusiast of broad governments where minority shareholders cannot seize control of the company. A center-right or right-center figure, in other words, sitting exactly where most Israelis already sit.”
A good description of Eisenkot as well. And the exact opposite of Netanyahu in every way.
If the Haredi parties were to vanish tomorrow, virtually all the Haredim would vote Ben Gvir. The only reason that doesn't happen is because there are widely publicized proclamations by leading Torah authorities to vote for the Haredi parties.
"Nationalist" and "hawkish" aren't quite the same. But what will happen to the Jews descended from Jewish communities in Russia is the same as what happened to Herut: one cannot support Jewish nationalism for very long without making peace with -- and eventually embracing -- the historic understanding of Jewish peoplehood and identity as defined by Judaism and Mount Sinai.
The majority of nonreligious Israeli Jews are nevertheless strong cultural Jews, with a better understanding of the concept of Am Yisrael than the Charedi fundamentalists whose primary concern is the evasion of work/service while collecting vast sums from the taxpaying public. This is not slander but basic economic facts which are freely available.
Unlike these antizionist charedim who prefer to call our holy soldiers “Nazis”, even chardal Ben Gvir supporters contribute.
I realize that it's much easier to get worked up over "Charedim don't work" than to recognize that 80% of women and 50% of men from the Charedi sector working and paying income tax. Or that 20-30% of the state's income comes from 50-60% tax on new apartments, something to which the average Charedi household contributes more than the average Israeli household.
Nevertheless, do try not to fall for cheap political propaganda.
The first Jewish fighting force in the land of Israel since Bar Kochba was Charedi. You have absolutely no idea what the "primary concern" of Charedim is; just like the "Free Palestine" idiots on college campuses who are convinced that Israel's primary concern is "genocide, ethnic cleansing and apartheid."
Consider: how was it that nobody in the army was able to push back significantly on the "konceptzia", and thus we would have avoided Oct. 7? Because the army is a hierarchal institution for behavioral modification, with a primary goal of producing generic Israelis to whom Judaism has little meaning. Worse, it has been ideologically captured by actors pursuing a social justice agenda, in which not only is winning taboo, but there must be no difference between men and women. All this has the predictable result of 20% (at least; the numbers may well be significantly higher) of religious recruits becoming secular during their time in the army.
That is the primary concern of the Charedim; and for you to pooh-pooh that concern as "evasion of work/service while collecting vast sums from the taxpaying public" means all that "cultural Jewishness" and "concept of Am Yisrael" doesn't care about Judaism, unlike the historical Jewish understanding of Jewish identity and peoplehood.
Thank you for explaining it so well… slowly but surely I get it.